February 8, 2023

A few days ago, I decided to set to private the few videos I’ve made to date on the subject of preparing Vyvanse water. I did that because I was receiving a number of comments about them and didn’t want to disappoint those trying out the drug for the first time.

Hi there welcome back to my youtube channel this is daniel rossell here now i want to do a video about adhd and depression and the differences between or my experiences of the differences between adhd stimulant medications and a drug called wellbutrin now before i go any further i do have to make the disclaimer that i’m not a doctor and you shouldn’t rely on

Anything shared in this video for the purposes of diagnostics or treatment if you are concerned about your mental health i highly highly suggest you go to your doctor and they will uh try as you and put you into the right system and that’s all you have to do to get to get going with it it’s quite easy um okay so i have to say a couple of things and this is this

Video has been something i’ve been planning to make for a couple of months now and i’ve just been busy with other things especially trying out this new medicine so um firstly i made a few videos about vyvance water and vyvant water is basically just putting vivants into water it’s really it’s arguably not was not worth making a video about um essentially vyvanse is

To the best of my knowledge the only water soluble adhd medication it comes as a powder within capsules and what my psychiatrist told me to do when i was coming on it was to actually use this method to titrate the drug so because here in israel we only have 30 50 and 70 milligrams of vitamins we don’t have the 20 40 and 60 capsules so what you told me to do was

Pretty sounded a bit hackish to me but it’s actually something a lot of doctors i’ve heard recommend put that into water drink two thirds and there you go you’ve just managed to make a dose of 20 milligrams vivants out of 30. the technical name for that is it’s a water it’s a volume it’s a volumetric titration it’s a water-based titration and you’re just playing

Around with its water solubility to make fine adjustments to the dosing quite a clever system so i made those videos and i took them down from youtube effectively last week now the reason i did that was because i’m no longer taking vivants and those videos were generating quite a number of comments now let me just explain my rationale with this it’s definitely

Not to boost my youtube channel because to reach the monetization threshold this is shooting myself in the foot because these were among my uh most popular videos the reason is this i do not want to have videos talking about my own experience with vyvance get people excited about it if anybody were to check out my other videos or leave comments i didn’t want to

Have to burst people’s bubbles repeatedly by telling them that oh i’m no longer taking this drug so my rationale was vivant water i’ve written a blog about it there’s a how-to on the internet it probably didn’t require a video to demonstrate how to put a pill into water and fill it up to a certain level so that is why those videos are no longer available now the

Broader thing i wanted to discuss today was to compare the two now i was on vyvans for about eight months um at that dosage and i um was doing it for a while alongside a drug called zoloft which is an ssri and um at some point i got 100 convinced that vyvanse and this is something i’ve heard a lot of advanced people uh report i was convinced that this stuff was

Like goldust this was like the absolute um solution to all life’s problems now i i would not say i was manic but i was certainly quite energized and that’s really what i was thinking i was it was actually more coming from a place of confidence uh that i thought that you know what whatever is causing my uh depression or these issues that i have i just need something

To stimulate me enough to work through the day and i’ll get those out of my way and i’ll continue through life so it wasn’t really coming from a place of let’s say mania and i don’t even want to use that term because it’s got a specific meaning in psychiatry it was coming from just that place um but unfortunately i had to accept i’m making youtube videos because

It was actually somebody else’s youtube video that got me back in the door of my doctor’s office and that was basically i just sat down one day at two in the morning after another productive day cleaning my apartment and i said i am pretty miserable this is making me more depressed i’m very very productive but this drug is not making me any happier it’s making

Me very edgy and i just could not relax there was which as a self-employed person freelancer however you want to call it is a very very bad combination because there’s always more work to do there’s always more inbound marketing there’s always more marketing there’s always more work there’s there’s always something there to do so i was just kind of working around

The clock and not really eating uh that was that was actually due to a completely separate thing um it’s kind of related to this whole journey of my gallbladder surgery has caused a lot of digestive problems and that was actually what got me in the door in the first place of a psychiatrist office because for years and years i was self-medicating something with

An abundance of caffeine and i was getting through life pretty okay but i still knew there was something that just was not ripe like you know most healthy people do not need coffee people do like coffee and people make jokes about their caffeine addiction and they go through caffeine withdrawal but i was on a kind of a different level with it it was kind of more

Like if i could have an iv drip installed that would i probably would have said great you know not not not really but just just to demonstrate um and balancing that with a little bit of alcohol a couple of nights a week not much but it just i knew i was doing something i was treating something poorly so it was after my gallbladder surgery that uh when my digestive

System sort of decided to stop working for me that was really a blessing in disguise because um this system basically was no longer viable so what i want to talk about in this video is vyvanse versus wellbutrin and my perception of them now what i’m taking these drugs for um when i first went to the doctor after this thing i described um the diagnosis is kind of

Muddy now i thought at the time that that was quite unique um that i was a dr house case and that is not the case um it’s quite common for people to have some sort of ill-defined mixture of adhd depression and anxiety so my initial i think i have a little bit of both my depression is a dystemic type depression i’ve never been very depressed i’ve never been unable

To get out of bed but if you really want to know the thoughts that go around my head every day i do struggle a lot with a sense of low self-esteem hopelessness and that’s been a long-standing thing for me that just kind of got a bit pushed over the edge with uh corona and with my gallbladder surgery because uh it’s kind of depressing being bloated all the time so

Again a blessing in disguise that got me into it so um adhd as well and that’s the interesting thing about these two conditions and why it’s so important to go to see a psychiatrist or somebody whose day-to-day work involves sorting out these uh complicated psychiatric pictures because to them i’m sure this stuff is a breeze the different mental health conditions

Depression anxiety adhd can throw up the same symptoms in terms of if we take the kind of stuff i was struggling with which was without caffeine i had trouble i it was really getting motivated to work once i was working i was fine um mo you know energy motivation focus that kind of a thing and that can be a fact that can be a manifestation of depression that the

Lack of focus can for sure be a manifestation of adhd and it’s also possible that you’re so anxious that you can’t focus on what you need to do so that again that’s why you go to a psychiatrist and they do stuff like give you questionnaires and take a detailed history and then they can unpack that process sometimes the unpacking process um occurs through medicine

Medication trials and that’s kind of what i went through it was a bit like the matrix um when i went to my psychiatrist and he the first time which was last summer did the intake evaluation and at the end he said well i can suggest two things for you one is ritalin which is uh adhd medication the other is prozac which is a ssri and it felt to me a bit like the

Matrix the red pill blue pill kind of a thing and i went for whatever the red pill is in that example the adhd med because those drugs scared me far less i was terrified of taking an ssri absolutely terrified i read so many horror stories about them on the internet and um when i finish with this video i’m actually going to do just one more mental health one today

Because coming off zoloft was easy and i was terrified of that i was on it for about six months another medicine i tried and um i just i don’t think anyone’s come to youtube so far a lot of people a lot of people have come to talk about how bad the brains apps are i’m not sure anyone’s done a video to say it was actually pretty okay and that was my experience for

About a week i was kind of a bit bummed out um felt a bit nauseous but it really wasn’t that bad um anyway so this is the reason i’m on wellbutrin is essentially i got depressed taking every stimulant thus far um an ssri made me very tired and this is a second or third line treatment for depression bupropion now just want to firstly say a few words about what this

Is and again this is coming from my perspective as a patient and not as a doctor but just to kind of contrast these two different drugs so it’s a weird one because it’s not classified in there with the stimulant drugs with the uh methylphenidates and with the vivants um it’s kind of its own thing it’s it’s not an ssri it’s not an snri um it’s neurotransmitter

Classification is an ndri it’s a norepinephrine dopamine reuptake inhibitor and it’s used for smoking cessation because it also has activity on the nicotinic receptor um so again this is my attempt to communicate the science it could be getting it wrong but what’s interesting to me about that is that from based on what i understand there’s a lot of overlap between

Um the neurotransmitter systems that vivants at al work on and that bupropion works on but the interesting thing is that their indications are different uh well butane is licensed for or really used for depression and it’s considered quite poor for adhd as far as i know and stimulants are not really used for depression only for people are really stuck with energy

So in one sense and this is what i have a hard time wrapping my head around on the one hand these drugs are very similar on the other hand they have different effects now the effect i feel so far on wellbutrin for insomnia this stuff is horrible now there’s only three dosages of wellbutrin 150 300 and 450 milligrams and that 450 limits actually quite rigid

And the reason for that it’s very you’ll have a hard time finding a doctor today who’ll sign off on more than that now the reason is that one of the concerns surrounding wellbutrin was traditionally that there is considered a high seizure risk they lower the seizure threshold and above 450 milligrams i believe the evidence says that that seizure risk begins to

Really really increase significantly so it was originally used at dosages like 600 milligrams with was withdrawn from the market for a while and then came back at these lower uh dosages so that’s what wellbutrin is and there’s a few forms instant release sustained release and extended release which is the longest uh release formulation this these are the extended

Extended release now um in terms of how they feel in terms of my experience going through them what i would say is this i find this crazy stimulating i just jumped up to 300 you might be able to hear that based on how quickly i’m speaking and i’ve just jumped up to 300 and i know i’m going to basically hardly sleep for the next week and i just want to do this

Because i want to feel better and i definitely do feel better um but it’s very stimulating now my experience i feel like these are 90 the same as vivants that’s my experience they feel it feels it feels like a very stimulating drug when i took this for the first day i was like this is this is a stim this is the same side effects of stimulants the anxiety the

Same benefits of stimulants the energy let’s say and also the same adjustment period because when you start on vivants and you go up in a dosage you also get this period of feeling like a wound up hamster and then that kind of just mellows down which is what i expect is going to happen with this dosage for me in probably a couple of weeks um so yeah they have

Definitely those uh those similarities but the difference the difference is that this somehow works as an antidepressant despite it the neurotransmitter systems being i think quite similar to vivance um despite the feeling as a patient subjectively being very similar one does just make you stimulated and the other gives you energy and somehow also makes you

Less depressed so this is a unique drug i’m not sure that psychiatrists understand uh and again this is based on me interacting with the very very useful ask psychiatry reddit i’m not sure psychiatry understands why this stuff is antidepressant has antidepressant qualities i think a lot of it’s a mystery but all we can do as patients is work with the drugs that

Our doctors prescribe for us and i will say based so far i’m very very bullish slash confident about wellbutrin because if there’s one thing i hate from any medication that i find intolerable it’s uh fatigue and brain fog um i guess i just like to use my brain as a writer and when i get my brain slowed down that’s like i’d rather get like unrelenting headaches

That have my brain feel like it’s mush um and that was kind of a bit of the feeling i got on zoloft so this is my attempt just to kind of explain a little bit here about how adhd and depression firstly they can be comorbidities is very common they can both cause symptoms that look similar and even for clinicians it can be hard to pull those two conditions apart

And identify which symptoms are coming from which or even from both um as i say it’s really something that you need to work with the doctor for because doing all this stuff is complicated and they’re an objective person who can take notes of your different experiences on the drugs and identify the best one for you so while button this might attempt besides that

To also talk about wellbutrin wellbutrin and five ants one is a long acting stimulant the other is a atypical antidepressant i find them feel quite similar but this definitely has a marked antidepressant effect that i did not experience with vyvanse in fact the opposite the more i was on it the more depressed it actually made me um which i think from people with

Adhd who turn out to actually have depression um that stimulants aggravate a untreated mood disorder i think is relatively commonplace and that’s what i experienced basically it made me very very functional but kind of depressed anyway i hope that video was useful more videos coming soon on the topic of mental health to this youtube channel

Transcribed from video
ADHD vs. Depression. And Vyvanse vs. Wellbutrin. (Patient Perspective) By Daniel Rosehill